To state the source of my material, "severe and relentless adversity" defines my life for 50 years.  A summary alone should be sufficient in this area since what I'm here to discuss is an alternative viewpoint - one which, if embraced, even if only to the degree of "it could be possible," could be dramatically life altering.

From birth, we are innundated with cultural mind programming that teaches us to be part of a hive.  Everything is perceived to be better, more powerful, of higher quality, more effective, if it comes from a team.  When we ascend, it's assumed without question that we must do so as a huge collective.  We are taught that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, it's good to share, and it is far superior to think of the greater good instead of "being selfish."

We are all so completely brainwashed with this basic concept - that our ultimate destiny must have us existing as part of a collective - that for most, even questioning the concept is impossible.

For me, the problem is that it doesn't pan out in real life.  Little if anything good comes from collectives, and for this reason I find it inordinately difficult to believe that our ultimate salvation lies on the road to any collective at all. 

Every person has two distinct and separate personalities: the individual persona, and the one that takes over when they're in a crowd.  Invariably, most if not all "mistakes" and "bad choices" in a person's life can be traced back to the crowd persona - even if those "mistakes" were individual choices aimed at securing one's position within the crowd, they were still prompted by the crowd persona.  Most of our resources in life are spent with the intent of securing a higher place in the crowd.  Most of the time we have no idea there is a choice.  We simply assume "that's the way it is." 

Crowds (groups) bring us street gangs, labor unions that become nothing but raping thugs, etc.  Every group, every year, needs more and more money to survive, more and more power, and does less and less.  The amount of money poured into charity could never be measured, and yet not one cause that any charity exists to "fight" has ever been decisively affected by those charities that exist to "eliminate the problem."  No cancer has ever been cured by a cancer charity.  Homelessness has never been eliminated by homeless charities.  Hunger has never been slowed by "feed the hungry" charities.  No social program has ever had a decisive impact on any social problem.  Ultimately, what these groups do achieve is to serve as a core source for perpetuating the problem - since, clearly, if the problem goes away, so does the group that exists to eliminate it.  Therefore every charity group would on a quest to eliminate itself if it were to act in accordance with its stated goals.  These groups and their needs growing larger every year suggests this is not an acceptable outcome.  Groups become a way of life and an addiction for people, but on the whole they produce little to nothing while requiring more and more and more resources every year.

If we go back to any invention you could think of that truly changed our lives - from a working power grid (Tesla) to radio (Tesla) to the airplane (the Wrights) the television (Farnsworth) to the transistor (Bardeen and Brattain) to Edison's light bulb, all these things came from individuals or, occasionally, a pair of people working together.  Even our modern cell phone network was pioneereed by one man with a bright idea.  [As a side note, most if not all these inventions, credited to the people they were credited to, were simultaneously being developed in multiple other locations and in many cases those credited with the inventions were not the first to succeed at all.  But that's not what we're here to talk about.]

History shows us beyond any shadow of a doubt that individuals build, and collectives range from having no appreciable impact to having a purely destructive one.

If history is to be believed, it should become blatantly obvious that as long as we stay collectively focused, we're not going anywhere.  History cannot give us a group that ever led us anywhere except in circles or to our graves.  Our future lies in the individual, which is why we were created as such.  We all experience euphoric idealistic visions of brotherhood and commune-type environments where we all live in a utopian vision.  But the truth is that if you can dream it, it's been tried and it's failed a thousand times before in history.

My experience of having the c*** beaten out of me (rarely physically which only makes it more brutal) as the core purpose of my life says that all of life is geared that way anyway.  We are here to evolve as individuals - not to behave properly through submissiveness to any collective of humans, large or small.  Cooperative interaction is one thing - go to the store, buy your merchandise, pay them something in trade.  But you show up at the store when you need something and you go home when you get it, to move on with your life.  The store is a support system, not a destination.  We all need support systems.  Individuals or even groups to interact with at a distance.  But my theory is that ultimately, what the coming changes are all about is, those who can move forward and evolve as individuals will survive and thrive.  Those who cannot will no longer be able to keep pace with the increasing frequency of the planet and will require something more along the lines of the old model.  Earth will no longer serve as an acceptable arena for their lives to play out.  It's apples, they're oranges; the two don't mix.

The difficulty in the hive state at this level is that each individual is "pointed" in a different direction, there is no true consensus in which direction is best. So it must begin with the individual "distilling" themselves down from all of their components and desires until they're left with the Core self. That refined being is capable of knowing in which direction it wants to seek.

And THAT'S when the hive concept can truly begin to take roots, in the next classroom of reality, or the next density. When individuals have refined themselves, they can join others of similar refinement and the group can start to act as one. There is constant refinement in this process, but eventually you have the formation of a group soul. This is not a dissolution of the individual, but rather having the memories of each individual unlocked to the group; kind of a pooling of experiences and resources.

But, yes, I agree. This level of reality is about personal refinement of the individual being.

I question why a collective *must* be our ultimate destination? What would go wrong if it weren't? (That's a serious question, not a smart a** one...)

As I understand it a collective is not required, it's only an option. An individual may choose to continue learning as an individual, or as part of a group soul. The 6th density may be different, as the lessons here are focused on the "Law of One," where all is consciously understood to be One. There may be a natural growth towards a collective at that point.

Is your concern that in a collective setting you would lose your identity?

Force of One

I have learned very recently that what we consider a hive, such as an ant hill, or bee hive or hornets or wasps or what have you, are composed of freely cooperating individuals! They do not, at any time, take "orders". They do communicate. They pass along information to each other about what is going on. They pass chemical signals to each other to identify familial ties. But they do not follow a "leader", take orders, or anything of the sort. They are not a mob either, but instead behave like a self-organized community. The idea that a "hive" has "masters" and "slaves" and is efficient because of it is just plain WRONG! Freedom and individual initiative and memory, in the form of DNA or instinct is the norm. So, as Humans, we are the greatest of "Hives" when we are free to do so!

Ben: is my concern that I would lose my identity in a collective? No. My concern is being held back, stifled, forced to go where the collective wants to go, at the speed it wants to go there. Individual freedom is of paramount importance to me as an individual. It's an issue of the quality of moment-to-moment existence.

Deef: I agree on the general point, with the exception being those rare cases where somebody is physically kidnapped, abducted, etc. and is physically unable to exert much if any free will. However as it relates to involvement in a collective, you're absolutely right. Authority figures are in place by the choice of others to obey that authority. So any structure, regardless of form, is the result of agreed-upon support for that structure. So ultimately it's all free will at play. I just like to respond to inner drives. My ex-wife used to encourage me all the time to go bike riding with one or another group of people. I never wanted to. What if the group wants to turn right and I want to go straight? I like freedom - freedom to be me. On this plane there will always be restrictions but I feel the most "whole" when those are minimized as much as is feasible. I can be in a group for an hour or so, and become very energized from it, then I peak out and I need to go do my own thing agian. When I'm alone, creativity flows freely without restriction or modification by the desires of others.

I see what you mean. Your individual free will is always yours. There's no contract that is signed when one is part of a collective soul. Imagine it kind of like the Federation in Star Trek. They may all hold the ideals of the of the Prime Directive, but that's because each member believes in those ideals as their own individual philosophy. The Federation has many ships all over the galaxy, so that individual interests can be explored, while the general philosophy is the guideline.

I understand your feeling though, I'm the same way. I don't like to work in groups because I always want to do things my own way, because only I know the best way for me.

Actually, I believe you are right about the "Prime Directive being freedom of action, with no first use of force. That is the basis of libertarian philosophy. That's it in a nutshell. You have freedom in the natural world, and you have freedom in the natural non-physical world too. There is no force in that world that can have a direct effect on the physical, except via an act of a natural person. As long as the action is not harmful to another natural person, then the act is justified in a basic way.

Good discussion all. Loved it! Go Federation! Yes I am SoulFire and I am a Star Trek addict.

Deef: yours is the first actual Libertarian philosophy I've ever heard mentioned. From everybody else it's just about legalizing pot and they really don't seem to think beyond that point. Anyway I look at collectives as an eternal recycling of a fixed amount of resources. How can a collective grow as a whole if no members within it grow? That would be like a chain becoming longer with no individual link having changed - except by taking material from one or more other links so that the overall length of the chain remains static. It's important to make the distinction between cooperative involvement and total assimilation (resistance is futile). For most, the entire attraction (or addiction) to a collective is the perceived and anticipated opportunity to ride without having to do work. Most perceive that they would have to work less and get paid more, etc. by becoming part of a group. This is from long-term and close observation of what people become when in a group: everybody wants to gain power within it; work less and get more. Based on people's choices (as I observe them), then, the motivation for group involvement is purely selfish with the group being seen as a resource to draw from. Put every member of the group in the same boat and you will end up with what most groups immediately become: arenas for power struggles that become black holes for sucking up resources while producing little to nothing of value. Sometimes those power struggles are very veiled, sometimes not, but they always seem to be present and predominant. The quest for power is rarely manifest via direct authority. Usually it's other avenues that are sought: worship me, love me, be impressed with me. The chosen mechanism is really of little consequence because the same goal is served: I say, you do. Put a celebrity and an unknown janitor in a room together. Give them both cancer. Who is going to receive more cards, wishes, prayers, and gifts? When a celebrity (the center of a group of admirers) dies, it's national news. When an unknown janitor dies, it's not. On paper, in theory, it all plays out very differently but in actual practice, this is what I see. The exception that immediately jumps out at me is a military structure. Here, aims are achieved swiftly or not at all, and a very clearly defined authoritarian structure serves as the glue that holds the group together. But even in this kind of structure, there is still a constant drive to move up the chain and become the guy who tells everybody else what to do. Another example of what I perceive to be the insanity of groups is this: take thirty children, put them in a school bus, and have the bus tragically crash where every kid is killed. The country will be in shock and mourning until the cows come home. But spread that same group of kids around the country, have them all die at the same moment of different and disconnected causes, and it won't even be newsworthy beyond immediate friends and family, in the vast majority of cases. The outcome is exactly the same in both cases. Even the time of death is the same. The only difference is the level of connectedness of the kids who died. Die alone and it doesn't matter. Die together and it's a tragedy. But ... but ... they DID all die together. Same outcome, same time; only physical distance separated them. But that's the key: they were not a group when they died. Okay who cares. It happens exactly this way every hour of ever day. Thirty kids died in the last hour from various causes. It'll never make the news. Put them all in the same place when they die and OMG where's that broadcast truck, we've got a situation here. This is what I perceive as insanity: how many motives could be in place for this to be the case? If your parents suddenly died, it would make very little difference to you whether they died alone, together, or as part of a larger group. It would change little to nothing for you. What's different in this case?

Chris, You hit on one of the first premises of Austrian Econ when you observed the scarcity of resources. This is the basis of marginal utility (Rothbard). Morals and ethics in economics and libertarian philosophy (Walter Block), and interactions between free people (Mises, Human Action).

As far as the group-think goes, mob mentality is a search for externalities of safety, power, resources etc. But cooperation of free people in a group is different. Leaders arise, not from power over others in the group, but by their rational behavior and understanding of the value(s) of the individual members of the group. A team is not a mob. A team is a cohesive unit formed from common thought and goals, and organized by ability and resource. A mob is an amoeba on the move, consuming and destroying as it goes.

The individuals within both groups feel stronger. But a Team will out perform an amoeba-mob any day, and with more efficient use of tallent and resources. This is the basis of Lasse-faire Capitalism. Not corporate capitalism, but lasse-faire Capitalism. Lasse-faire is un-controlled free associative trade between individuals and ad-hoc companies of individuals. Lasse-faire is free of restraint, and so is dynamic and changing according to the wants and desires of the individuals of the market. Those individuals, as they each evolve new understandings and desires, create change in both product, and purchase. This allows the market to change in positive ways.

In the form of economic system we have, which is better charachterised as Monopolized-capitalism with social restriction, the markets are captured. The media is captured, the money system is captured, the market itself is captured. Even government and future production are captured. And they call it capitalism! It isn't even close. There is little room for change. Mountains of legislation have to change before the market is allowed to change. New products, more efficient means, all captured by monopolistic patent or copy-rights, regulatory hurdles, red-tape and beurocratic revolving doors, fines, inspections and so on. This system is held captive by the monopoly on the money. That monopoly power is an illusion of greater power. No individual has a monopoly on anything except himself and the scarce resources he is in natural possesion of.

The Military organization you mension is a volontary meritocracy. Rising in this rigid order only happens when the rise is by merit, not by personal entitlement. The founding fathers used the word "regular" to mean this structure. A regular army, is one that is structured, and can come together with this stucture rapidly and provide a team effort use of defensive force efficiently and to great effect. This is the meaning of regulation. A measure, a standard measure or standard form, like a regular army.

In a free society, it is good practice to form this way from time to time in order to train for possible common defence. That is what the reserves are for. That is what militia is for. It is useful in natural disaster as well as war. A free people can form up faster than a mob, and are less likely to form a mob when they know each other, and have establised voluntary ranks and files within a team. Movement then becomes coordinated and swift. Mobs can't do that.

Look at Egypt. What happened? The government and it's organized forces were expecting a mob, but the free thinking people formed a voluntary regiment instead! Intellegent organization on the fly instead of mob un-mentalitity.

Media. Media is simply a mob with a leash and a scent for disaster. Free press is much better, and for the reason that there is no specific leash or scent for them to "track". Journalism is dead in the coprporate media world. There is a monopoly on "news".

Monopolistic societies and economies fail in the long run because there is not just one way of achieving any goal. Mises refers to the mal-investment in top down thinking, where lasse-faire is bottom up and closer to the action and the truth. People at the bottom are better able to see the immeadiate than the top.

Think of lasse-faire capitalism as a voluntary army of individuals working together to solve problems, and sending their best peole further up the stucture to captain and lead. those people have proven their ability to see clearly and decide fairly, and are given, this is an important point, GIVEN the power of authority by the people they work with. At no time ever, even in a monopolistic system of power and authority is the power and the authority taken by force. It cannot be taken, it must be GIVEN.

People have been convinced that their power should be given away in order to effect a greater good. This is not true. The give it when it is right to do so. They take it back when the need is past! But in our societies today, it is never assumed anymore to be returned. It is only given by belief, it is only kept monopolized by belief. It is only powerful by belief. When people remove their belief in power, the power itself collapses back to the natural power of the individual, no more, no less.

Deef: there is really nothing you've said that I would disagree with. The problem is that "cooperation of free people in a group" is - to put it bluntly but realistically - idealistic, "it looks good on paper," and not even incorrect despite those statements. The problem is that it is also out of reach of the human race in our current state - as a group. It's human nature at the current evolutionary stage of humanity. If people could reach the point of simple cooperation, things would be great. But they can't and they won't. Last night I was having - or attempting to have - a discussion with my girlfriend about THIS discussion. I mentioned the gist of what I had posted, summarizing, and she began what would have been an endless diatribe about herself, going into finer and finer, more and more superfluous detail about every life experience, etc. It *instantly* stopped being an exchange of ideas and became instead, for her, a self-centric forum which she dominated for her own needs. I never would have gotten to say anything more. My input would not have been solicited, welcomed, or even allowed if she had her way. I had to cut her off and point out what was occuring which, to me, was the absolute ultimate irony: she is the definitive living Ms. Socialite, always has to be in a group, and yet she demonstrates the most excessive inability and unwillingness to think beyond herself, her wants, her needs. The more I look at this, the more pervasive it seems across all people: the more socially oriented a person is, the less adept they are at connecting with others. Put them in the group and they care little to not at all for anybody else in it except for having a silent, obedient, captive audience who listens but does not need to talk; who gives but does not need to receive, etc. This is all just underscoring my main point: yes, in theory cooperatives can work wonders, if they were done right, but with humanity being where it is on the evolutionary scale, we're not going to see it down here. Maybe that's what we're shifting into - a new level where we CAN see it.

It is not out of reach! It is a requirement of unity! Look at this site for instance. Would you say everyone here is following a particular single idea? No. But is there rational organization here? Yes! and is there a rigid and controlled organization or is there voluntary organization? The site itself is regular, but the free minds communicating within it are not regulated! The unity is a coming together from like mind, not a coming together because this is the only way to communicate. Nor is it forced. Everyone is thinking for themselves, but organizing voluntarily. The idea that the ideal free ascociation is not possible is one that is maintained by those who have gained monopoly power in our world, not by the natural laws of human interaction. It is a requirement of unity that the individual parts form a whole on their own, by their own free and un-coerced will.

I have a similar problem with my mate. But still, the evolution is happening. People are waking up, if not through spirit, then at least through observation of the fallacies put forth by those who wish to maintain a "separation of mind" within the population-at-large. That is changing rapidly. Even my significant other has dropped lines lately pointing out the ridiculous aspects of societal "norms", even though she tends to still be socially cognizant and competitive. She is a CPA and has built a career helping people negotiate the endless and convoluted "rules" imposed. How do you change your mind about these things without denying your own career? That is a tough change to make. It requires downgrading in one's mind the power of the "rules" that one is so adept at negotiating!

What we are witnessing in the broader scheme of things is the ultimate failure of top-down control of society and economics. It always fails in the long run. What has perpetuated it all these centuries is the lack of communication at the bottom. That is the biggest change in all of human history! Now, at the bottom, an individual can communicate directly with just about any other individual on Earth at any time. This is awakening people to each other in ways they never were able to experience before, and so, they are awakening to the common problems of top-down control!
The Arab Spring was the harbinger of a similar change that is occuring in people all over the world. The media is not reporting it, because it is dangerous to the ends of those at the top who presume to be in control and ownership of the bottom.

Chris I understand your thought process and argument. Looking out at the world as it is now, it does seem an impossible task. That is why we here, are trying to be an example. A light in the darkness. It will not happen over night, who knows how many days, weeks or even years it will take. There have been others in history that have been the light as well, and some over 2000 years ago. And still we see the rise and fall. But if we succumb to this "top down reality" we can never change the mentality of it. If the awakened cannot change their minds to the utopian concept its roots can never take hold. Think of it at as a forest. One tree is planted, it takes years to root and grow strong. And more years to bear seeds so more of the same can grow. Though individual tree's they share the land, water and animals. If I tree suddenly decided to be selfish, draining all the life for itself all its others would die and he would be a tribe of one. Now I know tree's are much more enlightened then humans, and it is taken us years to come to a mass awakening, and when I say mass I do not mean 50% I have heard it tell about 10%. It is us that are the new tree's from that first example that is starting to take root. We are still young and trying to find our way in the unknown. But if we all choose now that we want the utopian society then we can be that shining example. Are there gonna be screw ups? Crazy ego people? and the like? Yes. But our convictions and growing numbers give us the power to bring about that change. As we education our children, and children's children it grows.

And there are people who are not ready for this method of life. We respect that as well. I believe that once we are able to sustain a level of "utopia" those that are not ready and willing to change to this method will be brought to either a new place to explore their individuality or humbled in this life to the extent that they will see cooperation is the best choice. But I'm not saying this is going to be over night. And I hope it will not take another 2000 years. But I am choosing to be the change I wish to see, I wish to be, otherwise why live this life if you cannot live your dream within it?

And I know what you mean with your significant other. My husband reeled at the idea of being able to know each other's minds. He is an empath and already knows peoples joys and pains, and it pains him greatly. I told him when the time comes it will be like minds, you will still have your privacy and individuality, but if you have a like philosophy, I like desire for the same utopia your dreams will come to pass as you embrace the change within them now.

Again how long this will take, if the Great Change will really change most people's minds, how long it will take the "like minds" to be grouped together is beyond me. But now is the time to change your own mind. Others must make up their own mine, like my husband and Deef's partner. But if we are the shinning example of how it can be, then others will look at us and think "Can I be like that too". And helping them to just think about the possibility is the first step to change.

Look at how Star Trek revolutionized thought. The concept of all different types of creatures living together in harmony. With technology. It school generations on that thinking, and that is part of the step towards change. And Star Trek did not hold back about wars, religion, other methods of thought. But it gave you a picture of what could be if enough people have the same dream.

If you are at a place of individual personal development that is great too! That is where the change starts, within. Until you can fully grasp yourself, what you need to evolve extending that concept to others is impossible. If you don't know yourself how can you possibly know others? So start with yourself Chris. Your personal dream of perfect self development. And when you have gone as far as you can go, you will see reaching out to another person with the same idea's as you is so natural. We are all here because we were reaching out for someone who shared are belief's. From each person here I have learned and grown and developed so much. Without them I would not have come so far in my personal development. Therefore I needed the group to help propel that next bit of soul evolution. And though I do not always agree with everyone here, they help me to think. In thinking comes change.

Much love, Many blessings to all here. This is an amazing, eye opening, dialog of great minds! Never stop seeking.

Star Trek gave us Vulcans too! Rational mind without fear. Ok there seemed to be no emotion at all, but truly, the idea is at least the end of fear! And Data, the android is a metaphor like Pinoccio, who was a Real Person in an unnatural body, or so they think....

Ahh but Vulcans do have emotions, they just master them. Not really the human way, but if we can interject logic with emotional control our fears will slip away like the dreams they were. :-)

I'm still digesting all of this stuff and a bit fearful too. I guess fearful of the unknown. I like camping and being i nature so maybe a great change like this will be more natural for me than not. Human nature is survival though and it might sound silly but I'm fearful of where will I get food, water and shelter to stay alive in this body? I don't know how to hunt although I know how to dig worms and fish. I don't know how to start a fire without matches. This may all sound silly but that's the fear in me is just surviving in this body. Also the part of all being one sounds great if all act as one and the human power struggles magically dissapear but if this is the case why do all these videos etc. on the web advise to stay away from the government if they are people too? Perhaps on most levels large disasters would serve as an equalizer where we are all forced to realize that we all have a common goal of survival and that will bring many people/ souls together? Or perhaps we will all die in our physical bodies and we will remember what we forgot before we were born and realize that we really are all one and that in the spirit form there is no control or power struggle issues because we don't have physical needs to be met anymore. That's what's been rattling around in my brain. Thanks for letting me spill my brain contents in here ;-).

Lara, You are the only other person I know besides my dear sister who spells her name that way! So to answer your question about survival, all I can say is get a survival book from the military surplus store and read it! Also, Buy a couple of good knives, one bad-ass Kbar for working, and one Swiss army knife for little stuff. A good canteen, and your book. Read the book. Gather a few of the little things like fishing gear, magnesium stick for fire starting etc. Next, get a book on wild plants and learn what to eat. I could eat well around here on many things without killing anything. Survival is what Humans do best. It is what we do with our free-time when we are not just surviving that is the beginning or end of utopia. Take these simple steps and put a kit together. You will be much better prepared and may not even need it! But it will reduce your fear.

The disasters that are coming are not to hurt us, though some will succumb. What is happening is that the systems of belief we built to rule us are being taxed into oblivion. They are not capable of the things they say they have the power to control. It is a comeuppance for elitism. My plan is to deliver hot water for soup in the park across the street. Bring people together in peace and beyond survival. To create, ad-hoc, a tribe out of the people of my community who have never really experienced community before. Let the elites try to control the world! They are now fighting among themselves because the markets, you and me, have such a distance from them that they cannot see why their power is falling and failing. They are the ones struggling to maintain. They are the ones employing guns and tanks and bombs to get what they want. You and I only need a hot pot of soup and a park! I hope that helps put things in perspective for you.

Thanks deefburger :)

Lara, you said you were a camper, your survival kit is already half way there. If you soul has called you to prepare (and I don't want to scare) then you can use this list as preparation. http://iparte.com/forums/topic/222/survival-check-list

If you want a good place to buy a seed back you can check out seedsnow.com . I bought one and got enough seeds to feed a village. LOL The books are digital, so if you are planning on needed one without electricity than you will want to get your own. Plan an area you can meet family and friends outside of the city, away from fault lines and mountains (that could fall on you).

You could also look for a group of like minds were you are, I'm pretty sure there are others from Cali on this site.

I just got my book Edible and Medicinal Plants of the Rockies.

As you spend time with us, and meditate on your fears you will soon lose that fear and find yourself ready to be there for others who have gone through the same things you are going through now.

And let us hope and nothing will come to pass that is difficult to the world and we have a great camping kit and food to donate to a food bank. That is my back up plan. LOL

Much Love Lara.

Lara: one absolute pattern I've noticed across the years is that if you can imagine it, it's going to happen some other way. Since birth in 1961 I have known without any question that I was going to live through "the end of life as we know it." I never knew any more than that, but it's been a foregone conclusion - inbred knowledge - for over 50 years. This is where my observations come from - always looking for the start of the party for 5 decades. Not casually, not out of curiosity, but because that's the big event in my life; the reason I'm here. With that much observation of that much intensity, I've had a lot of course corrections, rude awakenings, periods of hopelessness, periods of excitement, you name it. What it's all culminated in, after all this time, is one big fat absolute zero. I don't know anything the next guy doesn't know about all this. Nothing whatsoever. I wanted to emphasize my point as clearly as I could: if we can imagine it, it's not going to happen that way. You take one day at a time, deal with each thing as it unfolds, and approach it that way. How do I eat *today?* And get what extra I can to make it through tomorrow. We honestly don't know that it will ever even become a challenge. We project ahead and we speculate and we forget that all our speculation is just made-up stuff in our heads. One thing I can almost promise: even through the worst of it, if there is a worst that's coming, at the end of each day you'll be feeling like "well it may not be fun but I honestly thought it would be more difficult than this."

Chris, I've know the same thing for the same length of time. Born in 62. But I have to disagree with you about what we see in our minds. Not all of it is just made up. We are awakening to the reality that what we see there is real, just as what we see with our eyes is real. Not all of it is understood, nor is all of it directly related to the physical outcomes in our reality. However, all of it is effecting that reality, and we are here to learn how that happens, and to begin to exercize our ability to create by it. You can not know "specifically" what the future will bring, but you can know faithfully what to expect from the future if you understand the part you play in it, and that you are not the only actor within it. Together, when we share a single purpose, and a single way of being, when we admit our limits and expand our hearts to include those around us, then we achieve unity in a system of unique but equally powerful individuals and minds. We are neurons in the brain of Humanity and the Earth. We each think and do independently. But when we reach out to each other, we connect, and a larger mind forms from us.

@ Chris one thing that I have learned since 1969 when I was born is that thought is powereful and if you create a positive thought and visualize what you want that you can really can make things happen as crazy as that sounds. I started experimenting with positive thoughts and visualizations and a couple of years ago and I was able to manifest things in the material world such as a camera, a lens, even a camp trailer! When I was visualizing these things & didn't have the money and didn't know where it would come from but oddly simply just by believing they would happen the money appeared to make this happen. It started when I watched "The Secret". Perhaps this will come in handy to manifest food & water & shelter in the near future. Also I've learned to trust in the universe and know that in the end things will be ok. When I stay in that mindset of letting go and trusting & when I stop trying to control that which I can not life flows much smoother. So thanks for the reminder of staying in the now and knowing that all will be ok in the end because it always has been in my life and why should it be any different now? And I totally agree about reaching out to others and connecting. It's funny but when things happen like the earth quake we had here in Virginia it has a tendency to bring us together. Even in the little subdivision I live in here in the mountains people come out to help each other where needed. :-) So maybe that's the silver lining people will all be on the same playing field for a change and money status, color, religion etc. simply won't matter anymore what will matter is that we are all in this together :)

@ Soulfire I live on the side of a mountain here in VA but I will probably be 1/2 hour from the coast in the coastal mountains of Oregon when Elenin or whatever is close to us in Sept/ Oct. I'm visiting my Dad Sept 23- Oct 1st. I guess wherever I am when whatever hits if it hits will be just where I need to be and I'll ask my spirit guides & angels for help & guidance. If I am stuck in Oregon and can't get back to my husband & home in VA at least I know what plants are edible out there having grown up there. My dad lives on a lake too. I tried to convince my hubby to come with me but he is stayig here in VA he doesn't exactly believe that any of this stuff will come to pass. I hope he is right...

I hope both our husbands can laugh at us Lara. My grandparents are in Medford Or. Along with 2 aunts. Beautiful down there. I love the red woods. If anything does go crazy, go midland, in case of total waves. But lets hope for the best, and get through these next few months.

The redwoods are beautiful but not a very nice place to live in the winter time. I lived in Cazzadero off the Russian River for a few years and I'll tell you it was wonderful in the summer, but WET WET WET and MOLDY in the winter! I'm still around redwoods, but not IN them. Besides, in the wind they drop branches easily. 30ft, 100+lb branches, from the lower heights of 75-100ft, so you have a parking problem all winter long! That's how I lost my Corolla!

I only visited them myself. They evoke the spirit. But I can see how living by them would be difficult with what you say. I wrote a poem about them.

@ soulfire yeah I hope our husbands can laugh at us and we can laugh with them too!. I'm no where near the redwoods, that's down around the California border. I'll be about half way up the coast near a town called Florence in a house with dad that sits up on a hill with a lake below. It's about 20 min to a half hour drive from the ocean. You can hear the ocean from there though. We could always head inland like you said though. Dad's in his 70's but still in pretty good shape for his age. He vollunteers at a food bank in Florence so maybe that will come in handy ;-)

Guys, call me crazy, but born in 1962 and always had the feeling I would be there at the end.

They were testing the Tsunami warning system this morning from S.F down to Santa Cruz.

My daughter wants to live in a beach house in Santa Cruz. Looks like that may be where she goes next year when she goes to school there. We had no Tsunami stuff up here today though. We're 50mi north of SF.

From reading through this conversation, it becomes abundantly clear that the concept of being part of a larger group is generally held as the highest ideal in life - the ultimate destination. The grand finale. This only demonstrates my original point: we are so conditioned, so deeply, for so long, to embrace this concept, that it seems outrageous to even suggest anything to the contrary. What exactly are we celebrating when we talk about "as one?" Precisely what aspect of this is being celebrated? And why? We identify with a group as our ultimate manifestation. We can learn something from life in general here: beyond the efforts of man, life does *nothing* to facilitate our running in packs. Yes, we will form communities (not communes) and trade things and the like. But I don't view the concept of running to Wal Mart as somehow completing me as an individual. It's a side thing that I do because I have to, and I don't celebrate it very much. So life in general puts no real effort into gathering humans together in groups because that is not life's purpose. We do that ourselves, to suit our own purposes. What would be lost if it were discovered that our ultimate evolution in life is to ascend individually? If we discovered that there never is any big, happy family that we get to become part of as our ultimate, highest destiny? What is lost? What goes wrong? What changes? Herein lie our motives for needing (yes, "needing") that larger group insulating us. We perceive all kind of personal benefits from being part of such a group; benefits that would not be there if we remained as individuals. Otherwise we would have no concern with a group. We wouldn't care if it existed or not. It would hold no interest for us. And this is my ultimate point: you cannot fully reach your potential as an individual if you have *any* interest whatsoever in becoming part of a larger group; if that concept evokes any kind of emotion (i.e. relief) in you at all. You're missing the boat. The only parts of you that a group could possibly fulfill are parts you failed to fill yourself. Otherwise there would be no room for any kind of emotional response to a group. When that positive emotional response to a group exists, immediately you have ceased to be a unique individual, even if only in part. Mission failed. The group had to complete you; you did not complete yourself. The concept of being ultimately saved by merging into a group has been around since the beginning of time, and it has yet to yield anything beyond being yet another religion: " 'as one' is on high, we believe, we worship, and one day we will return to the ultimate Creator: 'as one.'" What if there never, ever, ever gets to be any 'as one?' Bear in mind that I don't make the rules and changing my beliefs (which only happens from within me) is not going to change the truth. Ultimately life is what it is, with me or without me, no matter what I do and don't believe. I'm looking at the world around me. Groups don't work. Just like Socialism, some people ignore those failures and just assume the concept only needs that final tweaking and then everything will fall into place. Not the case. What happens in a Socialist society - every individual being reduced to the lowest common denominator in the group - mirrors what happens on every level of existence. Nothing but some sense of dependence could drive us to forsake our individuality for becoming part of a larger group. Dependence does not facilitate growth. This is why life is structured the way it is: every crisis we face is faced as an individual. We make seek help and assistance but ultimately the final resolution must be put forth as an individual effort. Everywhere you turn it's that way. That is life: bring out the best in each individual. The whole 'as one' thing was made up by people, perpetuated by people, and it was long ago forgotten that it's just another coping mechanism for human insecurity. No large group has ever worked. It does not magically become a viable concept just because we shed our physical bodies. Consider the definition of a demon: a merging of multiple spirits. The ultimate manifestation of "as one." The bigger it becomes, the more evil it becomes. Just like in real life. The concept fails everywhere it's tried, on every level.

Consider the idea of Oneness in it's most basic form: Everything in creation, in existence, is really only One being.

As we move through the various levels of creation and expand awareness, this ultimate realization becomes clearer and clearer and clearer, until it is the sole focus. Thus at some point, the illusion of separation must be abandoned.

Between here and there you are ABSOLUTELY FREE TO EVOLVE AS AN INDIVIDUAL without the necessity of joining a group mind/soul. The group mind is simply another path that many individuals begin to see the benefit of. There is no loss of individuality, only a pooling of collective experience for the individual to draw upon.

And groups usually don't begin to form until a later part of 4th density: thousands and thousands (if not millions) of years from this point in 3rd density. Who knows how your perspective of the existence of a group might change between now and then.

But the group is not saying that the individual is incomplete: Everything is complete by its nature and there is no true separation between the Group and the Individual, all is One. Thus if One chooses to learn as a group or individual, the end result is the same.

@ Chris I see where you are coming from about not wanting to be in a group too...So many people in the world who are a part of a group are abused by the "leaders" and doled out a small amount of money or food etc. and they lead a life of being suppressed & following the leaders "rules" to receive that food & money while the "leaders" live a life of gluttony and excess. Money and power are their drugs of choice. And as we are seeing in the world with the protests in the middle east and elsewhere, this system simply does not work. In my opinion though, the reason this does not work is due to the fact that it is not equal and is horribly unbalanced. We see that in our own country here in the U.S. to some degree but not to the same extreme as other countries in the world where it is even worse. I don't feel comfortable being a part of a group either that is unbalanced and unequal so I completely understand that. There is a part of me however and maybe it's a bit Pollyanna of me that yearns for us all to treat each other as equals, with respect and caring. Perhaps if there is a series of major disasters around the world that render money useless and where all of us are suddenly equal things would be different? Or perhaps those in power will cling to their addiction and try to control others as they do now rather than working with others for a common good (survival of all of us humans no matter what color or sexual orientation, religious beliefs etc.). Is it possible for a group to function with respect and equality for all? Is that how the indiginous tribes function in the Amazon forest? I do like being an individual too and have always had a hard time "fitting in" to any group. I could never find a click or group that I wanted to be a part of in high school, I was always a bit of a loner so i understand where you are coming from not wanting to be a part of a group as the group models that seem to exist here on earth are now. Is there another way for a group to function? Can a group function based on love & equality respect for all? Maybe that is what we are all ascending too...or not.

Ben is right. Let's take the Objectivist/Austrian/Libertarian view point. As a sovereign individual you have equal rights and powers within the "group" Humanity, and every sub-group within. What gains you achieve in life may be all due to what you yourself can achieve., but the height of those achievements is elevated if you bring others into your plans, goals and actions. To do this, it is a requirement of you to be cognizant of the abilities and means that those other people can provide, as well as what compensation you can provide in return. Let's say you want to build a road to the river and you have a plan, the land, and the capital (sandwiches and beer), but you don't have enough labor or equipment to do it. You may hire Joe from down the street, plying him with beer and sandwiches, to bring his tractor and help you bulldoze this road. What has happened is that a sub-group formed, divided the labor and resources, applied the same plans and materials, and achieved a greater goal than you could alone. This is what happens naturally in human experience. This is what Lasse-faire capitalism and Free-markets are. Notice I didn't include any government or banking institutions? Those are typically NOT conducive to natural production or cooperation. Notice that I didn't include the Ministry of Roads, or the Planning Department? They were NOT needed.

So, What I am saying here is that groups, when formed voluntarily and for natural reasons of trade and mutual gain, are the means by which we organize "spontaneously" and reach new heights and goals.

What is happening in the awakening, is that we are changing our perspective on self, realizing it to be singularly important to ourselves, but at the same time realizing that our selves do better when we can combine our selves equally with other "selves". The Awakening includes a growing ability for telepathy and this brings the nature of self and other self into a whole new light. We realize now that not only do we need to judiciously and fairly share the scarce wold of the physical reality, but that likewise, in telepathic communication, we must share the not-so scarce world of the non-physical reality, and to do so without losing the self in a soup of community thought, or forced organism. We must maintain self, and learn to cooperate freely, free from each other as well as free to associate with each other when desired. There is a division of labor and resource of sorts in the mind space too!

Hello all. Born in '63 and have always known I would be around for "the end game". I told my mom that a few weeks back and she said she wasn't gonna be here. She's a devout Christian. Have been seeking the truth since I can remember.

Lara - a good way to start a fire is with jumper cables and some brillo pads...lol. I've been telling my son since he was able to listen about the coming end times. Now as an adult with a family of his own, he's preparing himself for survival. We live in the mid-Atlantic part of the east coast near Harpers Ferry, WV. Love this site...

Anyone see the final episode of "Rescue me", last night ? There was a scene where Dennis leary's character went with his daughter and son to the playground and ran smack into "GROUP" think. It was hilarious.

I believe that 'Group Conciousness' is the next rung of the ladder for Awakened Human Beings. I also believe that that goal sometimes requires voluntarily setting aside your personal desires for the sake of the Group!  It is also possible, as you know, to experience other peoples actions as if you yourself had preformed them!

I am putting my dreams their Jeff. thanks for sharing yourself and your view with us.

The next rung of the ladder ... what is that belief based on? Most perceive greater security in numbers, so they don't have to face the challenge of evolving as an individual. Most have little to no experience evolving as individuals; the carrot held out in front of them from birth is the utopian ideal of the perfect collective. It would make sense that if we have the wrong goal chosen, we would never reach the right one. And thus far in known human history, no collective form has a) been untried, and b) succeeded. There's nothing left to fail that hasn't failed before, a thousand times. There is no collective arrangement left untried and unfailed. None. It doesn't work. Most of us worship the ideal of the utopian collective as the top rung of the ladder simply because everybody else accepts it as the ultimate reality without question. Which is somewhat odd since there is no precedent for collective consciousness ever producing anything good for any notable duration of time, on any kind of appreciable scale. The collective is an effect. Each individual is a cause. I'm not sure how people think they're going to bypass the mechanics of that. A chain is a collective, exactly as strong, as a whole, as its weakest link, meaning every individual link must be at maximum strength to have a maximum strength chain. From a purely scientific viewpoint, there is simply no way around that. We like to think other links will spare us the evolutionary process and all its attendant hard work simply by surrendering our individuality to the collective. But there is simply no living experiential precedent for declaring the collective is the ultimate evolutionary stop in our existence. There is no positive precedent for it, and nothing but negative precedent from the dawn of civilization. Which brings us full circle to the point I'm trying to make: most worship the collective as the ultimate evolution in life, but there is nothing to base that belief on except personal desire and one's personal comfort zone. Neither has any impact on reality, so we each continue to muddle through life, always waiting for that grand collective awakening, always having it one more day away, never arriving today.

We can believe anything we like.  In the end it's irrelevant.  Reality continues on as it's going to continue on so it makes no difference how aggressively we embrace illusion.  It's still illusion; it never manifests beyond our own minds, which is exactly what we experience at the end of each day: it'll be here tomorrow.  Always tomorrow.

There is one that has not been tried but once in recorded history. That is, free sovereign individuals in a voluntary collective. It was done once before for about 40 years, but the people were not comfortable being themselves and without a governing authority. It was the Jews who left Egypt with Moses as their leader, but not as their sovereign authority. That period marked the only time in recorded history where people were truly free under God, and equal in their inalienable rights before God.

They gave it up, because they thought there was more power in Kings than in themselves. They gave it up because they thought they had no power individually before their God, and wanted a King to rule them and to stand between themselves and the world at large, rather than to rule themselves in fairness and mutual trust and face that world themselves and apply their own personal power.

Today, we are realizing that this failure is a failure of individual spirit and intents, and that to submit to kings and potentates is to reduce the self to chattel and servitude. We must reestablish our individuality, our individual sovereignty, if we are to become united as a people. If we submit to the sovereignty of government, then we will be submissive to tyranny, no matter what form it takes.

Great points being made here! Let me offer my $0.02. We are all unique individuals who have been conditioned to be dependent on others within a limited box. It turns out that this need not be the case; hence, we have "awakened". Upon my awakening, the obvious solution to guiding a society with unique individuals was simple: align each other with Love, i.e., the golden rule! If we do everything out of love for one another AS well as love for self, then we will naturally all point in the same direction! We are still free to do as we please within the boundaries of Love but our actions naturally become ALIGNED with Love. I propose this on my blog on Perfect Justice, in it's simplest terms. We shouldn't focus so much on controlling each other with uneccessary laws and rules. Besides, laws and rules cannot adapt to rapid technological changes and need to be ammended and so forth. Laws and rules are negative mechanisms that always increase in complexity. Love is a POSITIVE mechanism that ALWAYS adapts to changing society! I know it sounds ridiculous but it really IS that simple.

Tod, very well put. From a libertarian standpoint, the rule is not to use force against each other. Voluntary cooperation is fine, and encouraged. But forced compliance, forced action, or force applied without just cause, such as defence is not allowed. This means that no one person or group of persons has a right, power, or authority over any other. We are equal in spirit and in principal.

@Deefburger: we don't know that any of that happened. We weren't there. We know that we're told stories that it happened. If you look back as recently as Pearl Harbor, more stories say that the mainstream stories we're fed are so far from the truth as to be laughable. I.e. there's reportedly tons of evidence that the Nazis had tactical nukes and were using them. And that Jesus was born in 1056 A.D. Etc. I wasn't there so I can't declare they're true. They're stories conflicting with other stories. So they're exactly that impactful: they're stories. I have to go by what I've experienced. People hear stories about what happens to people who drink too much, smoke, do drugs, cheat on their spouses. Teens hear tons of stories about what happens if they __________. Stories are rarely if ever enough to control somebody's behavior even in the short term; forget the long term. Only personal experience stays with us and is not forgotten *if* it's intense enough and/or long enough in duration to cross that threshold of becoming indelibly imprinted on us. "We are equal in spirit and in principle" ... as long as we don't threaten the collective by reaching our ultimate level of evolution without it. One thing that cannot be argued is that those replying on this thread, *based on what's been expressed,* have not weighed both sides of the issue. The idea of individuality is passionately and wholly rejected without ever having been experienced to any appreciable degree. Fortunately for us, life overrides that and we're forced into a lifetime of situations that nothing collective can or will save us from. One day at a time, our lives become accumulations of experiences - not beliefs - that every problem solved, every goal reached, was done by exerting our individuality. So again, what we believe is irrelevant beyond making life a lot harder than it needs to be because we're always resisting life's current while still being completely swept up in it, always striving to lose ourselves in the faceless collective where we can stop being accountable for doing anything meaningful, we're free from individual performance assessments or expectations, we're free from accountability because everything major that goes wrong is the group's fault. We strive for that all our lives but life says no. We're going to evolve, like it or not. @Tod: I couldn't agree more. In actual practice, the only way I've ever seen really work to lose one's anger, insecurity, and everything else negative, is to eliminate its source. When we depend on others, on any level, it's their call to say yay or nay to everything we seek to extract from them. They don't make these decisions in our best interest because that would require treating us as individuals - everything most live to avoid. When we discover our own power, our own strength, free from any collective, free from any conditions, there's little left except love. Anger results when we demand things be one way and they end up being another (the universe didn't center around our emotional desires). Pain results when a belief conflicts with reality: we depend on life unfolding one way but it unfolds another. All negativity can be traced back to *individual* needs or demands that were not met by the collectives we depend on. Then we continue worshiping those collectives as our ultimate salvation. I find that I myself give the most - without conscious thought or effort - when I have no concern for what's in it for me. Imagine an entire planet like that.

Chris, I like to model people within society as a multi-domain liquid crystal phase. Specifically, we all coalesce around some ordered institution within a respective domain but the domains themselves are separated by disclinations (grain boundaries) that are not continuous, i.e., the domains are heterogenious, randomly orient with respect to each other -and are energetically separated by boundaries. Within each domain is a collective, if you will but those collectives are only aligned by their institution. Now what we are going to experience very shortly is an economic collapse. Within this mental model, it is simply heating the liquid crystalline society above the isotropic (completely disordered) melting point so it will literally be every man for him/her-self. THIS is a critical point. IF we can SHOW people MACRO-alignment based on a simple fundamental principle such as LOVE, we can truly establish this ALIGNED phase where suddenly the Universe works FOR US! How do we do this? With some fancy words? No. We do it through a sound established theory that is practiced by many of us scattered around the world. You only need a few strongly aligned liquid crystals to NUCLEATE an aligned phase. Typically, these liquid crystals exist at boundaries but it can happen in the bulk as well. We here on Iparte are fairly scattered around the world. If we can all agree on this simple principle (LOVE) and ACT upon this principle theory (based in LOVE), we can EASILY induce an aligned phase in society from the isotropic phase. We simply have to remain ALIGNED during the cooling-off period. It is simple physics in ordered fluids! (I did this professionally and made many nifty consumer devices using the same principles.) ;)

Tod, I actually understood that! You are 100% correct in your metaphor. This process is happening, and Love and Individual freedom collectively expressed in peace and harmony is the "phase change" that is happening to the whole of Humanity. Liquid crystals is a great metaphor for the process! Thank You!

Deefburger, thank you! I have other metaphors that directly translate from LC phases to our current reality. ;)

I'll bet you do. I come from materials science and electronics and Nature is FULL of metaphors for Natural things!